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Rochford Parish Church
Rochford Parish Church
This is the second part of the interview with Chris Cozens, the recently retired Rector of St. Andrew’s Parish Church, Rochford. To return to the first part of the interview, please CLICK HERE
RL: Watching from outside the Anglican Church, it seems that vicars only seem to stay around for a relatively short while. Is that true?
Chris: No, once you’ve done your curacy, and your curacy is generally for three or four years, and once you go into your own living, your own parish or parishes, then you can stay there pretty much as long as you want to. The Bishop might ask you to move or to consider a move. For me, going into ministry late, in order to get what we might call a ‘chunky’ parish, I needed to do some fairly speedy moving which, looking back in it, I rather regret, because I think you need at least five years even to begin to get to know parishes, to begin to understand what’s going on underneath the surface. So looking back on it I would say seven years absolute minimum is needed really, and in many ways it would have been nice to have the luxury of staying longer. But at the same time, in my twenty three years, I did my curacy in Wallasey, I moved down to Norfolk, I moved back to Lancashire and I’ve moved back to Essex, so I’ve had the experience of different communities in different parts of the country, and that’s been fascinating, and I’ve learnt a lot from that.
RL: Again, there tend to be stereotypes about north and south of the country. Did you find much difference?
Chris: I think it is fair to say, and I’m not in any way wanting this to be derogatory, but I think the north of the country is still behind the times as compared to the south east, and church still has a very definite place in the community and is still, or was when I was there, quite central to life, whereas down here in the south east, I think things have moved on and church doesn’t automatically have a place; down here the church has got to earn its place.
RL: Presumably, therefore, one of your goals when you came south again, has been to bring the church more into the centre of the life of the community?
Chris: To try to. I think that only really works when the church actually goes out into the community; it’s got to make its presence known and it’s got to express an interest in the community and in people and in what they are doing. It’s also got to get away from the idea that it is going out to bring people back into the church. It’s just got to go out.
RL: So how did you do that in this area?
Chris: I think by trying to get out and about myself into the community to try to, for example, get into schools, into care homes, into those places that are secular organisations, and to try to encourage the members of the church to do likewise, and just be there. In that way, if you can get into the community and people know that you care, know that you are interested, eventually you get to that point where people will start to ask you about yourself and about what motivates you and so on.
RL: It is often said that being a clergyman or minister is one of the most stressful of jobs. Is that your experience?
Chris: I think it becomes stressful from the point of view that, if you have a number of (old) church buildings then you have a number of places where health and safety becomes central to life and your ability to comply is governed by the help that you have available. Over and above that you have Child Protection Issues, vulnerable people, and a whole raft of things like that, and you’ve got a whole lot of expectations on you as a clergyman which are, to some extent, focused on how things used to be and what the clergyman used to do, so it’s stressful from that point of view.
It’s also stressful from the point of view that because of all those expectations and obligations, you very often feel you can’t do what you’re called to do, which is to help people with their life of faith, their journey of faith, their spiritual lives. I firmly believe I was called by God to preach, to teach, to lead, to guide, to care, rather than being heavily concerned with dry rot, wood worm, and going and opening fetes and garden parties, and trying to reconcile all that is quite difficult.
RL: Yes, I’ve heard it said that part of the burden of the clergyman or minister is the awareness of the burdens that the flock carry in their everyday lives. Have you known that?
Chris: Yes obviously, for example, if in the course of a year you were, say, to take forty funerals, you experience families going through pain and sadness and you can’t and shouldn’t divorce yourself from that. You’re heavily involved in that and where God’s people are hurting, you’re hurting. At the same time we’re not limited to just doing funerals, we’re involved in every aspect of life. You simply can’t carry the burden for everybody and you really have to try and put that idea out of your mind, and focus on just helping them, and laughing with those that laugh and crying with those that are crying and so on. I’ve never felt it to be a burden; actual Christian ministry to people is never a burden, it’s only a joy, however difficult it is at times.
RL: Did you, therefore, have a sense of fulfilment in your ministry?
Chris: Looking back on it, I have found it simultaneously wonderful and fulfilling and enormous fun and the most tremendous privilege, but quite frustrating at times, in the sense that very often you can see the potential for God’s people and you can see it falling short, and I’ve had to remind myself that I’m sure God gets as frustrated with me at times as I get with his people.
RL: Have you come to the point of retirement thinking, “Thank goodness!” or “I wish I could carry on some more,” or somewhere in between perhaps?
Chris: I think as I sit here today, I am beginning to enjoy being able to do the things that I haven’t been able to do, like do nothing for a little bit, but at the same time I do have a sense of feeling that I still have something to offer, I still want to serve God and his people, and I don’t know where that feeling is going to lead. I’m just sitting here waiting at the moment, and I think waiting is a very good thing spiritually, so I am waiting on God.
RL: So waiting precludes expectation; you have to be fairly open minded as to where this might go, so you haven’t arrived in retirement with the expectation that “Now I can go and do this or that.”?
Chris: No not at all. I really am just, in a sense, enjoying the lull and waiting to see where it’s going to lead, and maybe it will lead me into further quietness and better use of this quiet period of life. I don’t know, but I am just open to God’s leading and see where it takes us.
RL: Chris, that’s probably a very good place at which to stop. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and the wisdom of the years that have come with them.
To return to the first part of this interview please CLICK HERE
Return to St. Andrew Front Page
Chris: No, once you’ve done your curacy, and your curacy is generally for three or four years, and once you go into your own living, your own parish or parishes, then you can stay there pretty much as long as you want to. The Bishop might ask you to move or to consider a move. For me, going into ministry late, in order to get what we might call a ‘chunky’ parish, I needed to do some fairly speedy moving which, looking back in it, I rather regret, because I think you need at least five years even to begin to get to know parishes, to begin to understand what’s going on underneath the surface. So looking back on it I would say seven years absolute minimum is needed really, and in many ways it would have been nice to have the luxury of staying longer. But at the same time, in my twenty three years, I did my curacy in Wallasey, I moved down to Norfolk, I moved back to Lancashire and I’ve moved back to Essex, so I’ve had the experience of different communities in different parts of the country, and that’s been fascinating, and I’ve learnt a lot from that.
RL: Again, there tend to be stereotypes about north and south of the country. Did you find much difference?
Chris: I think it is fair to say, and I’m not in any way wanting this to be derogatory, but I think the north of the country is still behind the times as compared to the south east, and church still has a very definite place in the community and is still, or was when I was there, quite central to life, whereas down here in the south east, I think things have moved on and church doesn’t automatically have a place; down here the church has got to earn its place.
RL: Presumably, therefore, one of your goals when you came south again, has been to bring the church more into the centre of the life of the community?
Chris: To try to. I think that only really works when the church actually goes out into the community; it’s got to make its presence known and it’s got to express an interest in the community and in people and in what they are doing. It’s also got to get away from the idea that it is going out to bring people back into the church. It’s just got to go out.
RL: So how did you do that in this area?
Chris: I think by trying to get out and about myself into the community to try to, for example, get into schools, into care homes, into those places that are secular organisations, and to try to encourage the members of the church to do likewise, and just be there. In that way, if you can get into the community and people know that you care, know that you are interested, eventually you get to that point where people will start to ask you about yourself and about what motivates you and so on.
RL: It is often said that being a clergyman or minister is one of the most stressful of jobs. Is that your experience?
Chris: I think it becomes stressful from the point of view that, if you have a number of (old) church buildings then you have a number of places where health and safety becomes central to life and your ability to comply is governed by the help that you have available. Over and above that you have Child Protection Issues, vulnerable people, and a whole raft of things like that, and you’ve got a whole lot of expectations on you as a clergyman which are, to some extent, focused on how things used to be and what the clergyman used to do, so it’s stressful from that point of view.
It’s also stressful from the point of view that because of all those expectations and obligations, you very often feel you can’t do what you’re called to do, which is to help people with their life of faith, their journey of faith, their spiritual lives. I firmly believe I was called by God to preach, to teach, to lead, to guide, to care, rather than being heavily concerned with dry rot, wood worm, and going and opening fetes and garden parties, and trying to reconcile all that is quite difficult.
RL: Yes, I’ve heard it said that part of the burden of the clergyman or minister is the awareness of the burdens that the flock carry in their everyday lives. Have you known that?
Chris: Yes obviously, for example, if in the course of a year you were, say, to take forty funerals, you experience families going through pain and sadness and you can’t and shouldn’t divorce yourself from that. You’re heavily involved in that and where God’s people are hurting, you’re hurting. At the same time we’re not limited to just doing funerals, we’re involved in every aspect of life. You simply can’t carry the burden for everybody and you really have to try and put that idea out of your mind, and focus on just helping them, and laughing with those that laugh and crying with those that are crying and so on. I’ve never felt it to be a burden; actual Christian ministry to people is never a burden, it’s only a joy, however difficult it is at times.
RL: Did you, therefore, have a sense of fulfilment in your ministry?
Chris: Looking back on it, I have found it simultaneously wonderful and fulfilling and enormous fun and the most tremendous privilege, but quite frustrating at times, in the sense that very often you can see the potential for God’s people and you can see it falling short, and I’ve had to remind myself that I’m sure God gets as frustrated with me at times as I get with his people.
RL: Have you come to the point of retirement thinking, “Thank goodness!” or “I wish I could carry on some more,” or somewhere in between perhaps?
Chris: I think as I sit here today, I am beginning to enjoy being able to do the things that I haven’t been able to do, like do nothing for a little bit, but at the same time I do have a sense of feeling that I still have something to offer, I still want to serve God and his people, and I don’t know where that feeling is going to lead. I’m just sitting here waiting at the moment, and I think waiting is a very good thing spiritually, so I am waiting on God.
RL: So waiting precludes expectation; you have to be fairly open minded as to where this might go, so you haven’t arrived in retirement with the expectation that “Now I can go and do this or that.”?
Chris: No not at all. I really am just, in a sense, enjoying the lull and waiting to see where it’s going to lead, and maybe it will lead me into further quietness and better use of this quiet period of life. I don’t know, but I am just open to God’s leading and see where it takes us.
RL: Chris, that’s probably a very good place at which to stop. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and the wisdom of the years that have come with them.
To return to the first part of this interview please CLICK HERE
Return to St. Andrew Front Page